* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:11] SOUNDS GOOD. BRING THIS PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE MEETING TO ORDER. UH, EVERYBODY HERE IS HERE. EXCUSE ME. AND, UH, SUPERVISOR GITZ IS ON, UH, ZOOM. UM, THIS, THIS MEETING WAS POSTED, HANG ON. I GOTTA GET TO MY RIGHT SCREEN HERE. THIS AGENDA WAS POSTED IN THE OFFICE OF THE COUNTY CLERK ON THE 11TH DAY OF SEPTEMBER, 2026. NOTICE WAS SENT TO THE WASHINGTON COUNTY DAILY NEWS EXPRESS NEWS, W-I-B-D-W-M-B-Z RADIO, WTKM RADIO. MY COMMUNITY NOW HARTFORD TIMES PRESS, KIOSKI STATESMAN, MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL. UM, OKAY. WE'LL STAND FOR A MOMENT OF SILENT PRAYER AND PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. OKAY. DID EVERYBODY REVIEW THE MEETING MINUTES IN THE PACKET? ANY CHANGES OR UPDATES NEEDED FROM ANYBODY? OKAY. SEE NONE. WE WILL POST THEM OR KEEP 'EM AS POSTED. UH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO DISCUSSION OR POSSIBLE ACTION ITEM, A TRANSIT RIDERSHIP REPORT. THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO GO. YEP. THE POLICY FIRST. THE POLICY FIRST. OH, THE POLICY FIRST. UH, WOULD IT BE OKAY IF WE DID THE POLICY FIRST? WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WITH ALL THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS THAT YOU HAVE PROPER TIME TO ADDRESS ALL THESE, THESE ITEMS. FIRST IN THE TRANSIT REGISTER REPORT AT. THAT'LL BE FINE. LET'S JUMP TO TRANSIT POLICY UPDATE THEN. THANK YOU. OKAY. OKAY. UH, SO AS A SUB-RECIPIENT OF THE STATE FOR FEDERAL FUNDS, UH, THEY SUPPLIED A, THE COUNTY WITH A TEMPLATE OF POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THAT ADHERE TO STATE AND FEDERAL TRANSIT GUIDELINES. UH, LAST MONTH I INTRODUCED THE POLICY AND PROCEDURES, UH, DRAFT. UH, THE COMMITTEE HAS A FEW OPTIONS ON HOW I CAN UPDATE CERTAIN POLICIES. I'VE EDITED A FEW NOTES TO THE AGENDA FROM LAST MONTH, UH, NOTABLY THE, UH, DEFINITION OF SERVICE ANIMAL, ADDING A VOLUNTARY PAYMENT OPTION FOR TRIP SUSPENSIONS, AND ALSO REFERENCING, UH, THE REASONABLE MODIFICATION REQUEST. UH, WOULD YOU PREFER I GO THROUGH EACH OF THE, UH, UH, POLICY OPTIONS? YEAH, WHY DON'T YOU, WE CAN GO THROUGH EACH ONE ONE STEP AT A TIME AND YOU CAN KIND OF GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT, AND THEN WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S AMENABLE TO THE GROUP VERSUS VOTING ON THEM ALL AS A PACKET AND TRY TO REMEMBER OUR QUESTIONS TO THE VERY END. RIGHT. THAT WORKS FOR ME. MM-HMM . I'M ASK A QUESTION JUST RIGHT OFF THAT. I WASN'T HERE LAST MONTH, SO I APOLOGIZE. I KNOW YOU STARTED THIS. UM, SO ON THE DISCUSSION HERE, IT, IT SAYS, WE ARE NOW A, A SUB-RECIPIENT, UH, OF THIS SECTION 53 11 RULE TRANSIT FUNDING. SO THIS IS A NEW IS SO THIS IS A GRANT OR A NEW FUNDING SOURCE, SCOTT? WELL, YEAH. YEAH. SO THINK ABOUT IT. UH, YOU MIGHT RECALL WE WERE UNDER THE WEST BEND URBANIZED AREAS. WE'RE GETTING URBANIZED MONEY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. NOW WE'RE FLOPPING TO THE STATE SIDE OF THE EQUATION. SO INSTEAD OF GETTING THIS ONE IS BETTER, OOH, , UH, OR WHICH ONE HAS, IS THERE, IS THERE ANY MORE OR LESS FUNDING FINANCIALLY SPEAKING? YES. YES. UH, IT'S THE SAME. SAME. OH, IT'S THE SAME, YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT CORRECT SOURCE. YES. AND, AND IN THEORY, OUR REPORTING SHOULD BE LESS GOING FROM THE FEDERAL SIDE TO THE STATE SIDE. OKAY. THEORY. BUT SOME OF THEIR REQUIREMENTS ARE A LITTLE MORE WACKY, NOT WACKY, JUST DIFFERENT. RIGHT. SO WE'RE USED TO, WE'RE USED TO BEING UNDER THE FEDERAL SYSTEM FOR YEARS. RIGHT. SO WE HAD, WE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED EVERY TIME, ESPECIALLY DID AN AUDIT. NOW WE'RE JUST UNDER A DIFFERENT SYSTEM, SO WE JUST GOTTA LEARN THEIR SYSTEM. AND YES, HOPEFULLY OVER TIME IT SHOULD BE AN EASIER SYSTEM. WE JUST GOTTA TAKE A LITTLE TIME TO LEARN THEIR SYSTEM. THANK YOU. SORRY ABOUT THAT. CARRY ON. YES. OKAY. SO THE FIRST ITEM HERE IS A COMFORT AND SURFACE ANIMAL POLICY. UH, SO A DA REQUIRES TRANSIT AGENCIES TO ACCOMMODATE SERVICE ANIMALS, BUT POLICIES FOR COMFORT OR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ANIMALS, UH, VARY BY AGENCY. AND A NOTE I'VE ADDED HERE, UH, ACCORDING TO THE A DA CIRCULAR SERVICE ANIMAL IS ANY GUIDE, DOG SIGNAL, DOG, OR OTHER ANIMAL, INDIVIDUALLY TRAINED TO DO WORK OR PERFORM TASKS FOR AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A DISABILITY. UM, UH, IN [00:05:01] THE LAST MEETING, IT WAS BROUGHT UP WHETHER A SERVICE ANIMAL HAD TO BE A DOG OR NOT. SO, UH, JUST ADDING CLARIFICATION THAT IT COULD BE A DOG OR OTHER ANIMAL, UH, FOR A SERVICE ANIMAL. UH, SO OUR CURRENT POLICY, WE DON'T HAVE AN EXPLICIT, UH, POLICY FOR SERVICE ANIMALS, BUT SERVICE ANIMALS ARE IMPLICITLY ALLOWED. UH, SO THE STATE TEMPLATE POLICY, IT REQUIRES COMPLIANCE WITH A DA. SO SERVICE ANIMALS ARE ALLOWED WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION, UH, TRANSIT AGENCIES MAY REFUSE TO TRANSPORT SERVICE ANIMALS THAT ARE DEEMED TO POSE A DIRECT THREAT TO THE HEALTH OR SAFETY OF DRIVERS OR OTHERS, OR CREATE A SERIOUSLY DISRUPTIVE ATMOSPHERE OR OTHERWISE NOT UNDER THE RIDER'S CONTROL. AND SO WE CAN CHOOSE WHETHER TO FOLLOW, ALLOW, UH, NON-SERVICE ANIMALS. SO IF COMFORT ANIMALS ARE ALLOWED, THEY COULD BE CARRIED IN, UH, IN CARRIERS. UH, AND THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD HAVE TO, UH, CONTACT THE, UH, DISPATCH OFFICE AHEAD OF TIME. UH, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO ALLOW THE, TO ADOPT THE STATE, UH, POLICY FOR SERVICE ANIMALS FOR, UH, SINCE EXPLICITLY, UH, STATED IN OUR POLICIES, BUT, UH, DO NOT ALLOW, UH, COMFORT ANIMALS. OKAY. DO WE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH SERVICE ANIMAL? UM, IT, I DIDN'T DO NOT HEAR THAT. IT'S VERY OFTEN THE SERVICE ANIMALS, UH, BUT WE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ASK FOR DOCUMENTATION, UH, ON IT'S A SERVICE ANIMAL. WE CAN ONLY ASK IF IT'S, UH, WHAT THE SERVICE ANIMAL IS, IF IT IS A SERVICE ANIMAL, BUT WE CAN'T ASK FOR ANY FOLLOW-UP DOCUMENTATION. UH, BUT I DIDN'T HAVE ANY, UH, CURRENT ISSUES. IT WAS JUST POSSIBLE, UH, ISSUES THAT COULD OCCUR IF ALL COMFORT ANIMALS WERE ALLOWED, UH, BECAUSE OUR CURRENT POLICY DOES NOT HAVE ANY, UH, LANGUAGE ON COMFORT ANIMALS. BUT I DIDN'T HAVE ANY, UH, INCIDENCES OF, UH, UH, COMFORT ANIMALS. UH, SO THE NEXT ITEM WAS, UH, MAXIMUM ADVANCE RESERVATION WINDOW. NO, NO, WE'RE NOT MOVING ON. OH, OKAY. OH, ONE AT A TIME. YEAH. WE'RE GONNA TAKE THESE ONE AT A TIME IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT. SO WE CAN THEN DISCUSS THE SERVICE ANIMAL THING. AND SO, ARE WE JUST SAYING THE STAFF REC, ARE WE GOOD WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION? I AM. YEAH. I THINK WE DID MAKE SOME ADJUSTMENTS. A LITTLE TWEAKING LAST MEETING. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU CHANGED KIND OF YOUR LANGUAGE TO IT, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY. WELL, I THINK FOR THIS NUMBER, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS UNDER A NUMBER, MB, THE STATE TEMPLATE POLICY. SO WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE REQUIRE COMPLIANCE WITH A DA, THE SERVICE ANIMALS WILL BE ALLOWED WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION. THAT'S THE STATE POLICY. AND I DUNNO IF WE CAN GO AWAY FROM THAT ONE. 'CAUSE SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA JUST TAKE THE STATE POLICY AND YEP. AND PUT IT IN THERE, WHICH ALSO MEANS THAT BASICALLY IF SOMEONE ELSE SAYS IT'S A SERVICE ANIMAL, YOU JUST KIND OF NOD YOUR HEAD AND GOING, OKAY, NUMBER TWO SAYS, BUT IF IT'S LOOKS OR ACTS BASICALLY NOT APPROPRIATE, WE CAN THEN DENY IT. CORRECT. SO I THINK THERE'S, LIKE, THAT'S A GOOD POLICY TO HAVE GOING. YEP. YEP. AND THEN WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS WHAT COULD BE CONSIDERED A COMFORT ANIMAL? LET'S SAY SOMEONE COMES ON THERE WITH A, A CAT, A PARROT, WHATEVER IT COULD BE. DO YOU WANNA ALLOW THAT ONE? AND IF YOU DO, UM, SHOULD IT BE IN A, IN A KENNEL OR CAGE? AND SO YOUR OPTIONS ARE, WE'RE JUST NOT GONNA ALLOW ANY COMFORT ANIMALS OR SAY, YES, WE'LL ALLOW COMFORT ANIMALS, BUT THEY GOTTA BE IN A KENNEL, CAGE, LEASH, WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE SO DECIDES. SO YEP. THAT'S HERE RIGHT NOW. BECAUSE THERE COULD BE SOMEONE THAT WANTS TO TAKE THEIR ANIMAL TO A VET, AND SO THAT BY HAVING THEM IN A CAGE, AT LEAST YOU SAY, YEP, THEY CAN COME, BUT THEY GOTTA BE CAGED OR KENNELED UP, AND THEY CAN TAKE THEIR CAT, DOG PARROT, WHATEVER IT IS TO THE VET. SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE KIND OF MORE OR LESS YOUR DECISION POINT IS, DO YOU WANNA ALLOW COMFORT ANIMALS? AGAIN, WE'RE NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THEM RIGHT NOW, BUT THERE COULD BE SOMEBODY THAT'S ALLERGIC TO CATS THAT'S A SHARED RIDE TAXI. SO, I MEAN, YOU COULD WEIGH THIS BOTH WAYS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE COMING TO YOU FOR THE POLICY GOING WELL, RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF COMFORT ANALYSTS COMING ON, SO MAYBE THE POLICY SHOULD BE DON'T ALLOW THEM ON. AND OF COURSE, IF WE START GETTING COMPLAINTS OR YOU AS ELECTED OFFICIALS START GETTING COMPLAINTS, UH, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADDRESS THAT POLICY AT THAT TIME AND MAKE A REGULAR ADJUSTMENT. SO THAT'S WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATION IS, IS TO SAY, YEP, FOLLOW THE STATE TO NUMBER ONE AND TWO. AND NUMBER THREE IS NO COMFORT ANIMALS. HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, YOU'RE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO ALLOW THEM OR PUT 'EM IN A KENNEL OR JUST ALLOW THEM FREELY IF YOU'D LIKE. IT'S REALLY UP TO THE, YOUR POLICY DECISION ON THIS. UH, I'M OKAY WITH IT THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW, AND I THINK THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CENSUS. SO, OKAY. SO WE'LL GO THROUGH THIS. EXCUSE ME, CHAIR. YEP. SUPERVISOR GALL. THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU. UM, SO, [00:10:01] UH, CHARLIE OR SCOTT, I, I GUESS I'M IN READING IN THE MATERIAL HERE, 37.3. IT DEFINES THE SERVICE ANIMAL, UM, AND SAYING THAT IT'S SPECIFICALLY TRAINED TO WORK, PERFORM TASKS FOR AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A DISABILITY. HOWEVER, I THINK I HEARD YOU SAY WE CAN'T ASK FOR PROOF, UH, THAT, THAT THAT SERVICE ANIMAL INDEED HAS BEEN TRAINED FOR SAID DISABILITY. I, THAT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE SENSE. IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT IS A SPECIFICALLY TRAINED ANIMAL, AGAIN, IT, MAYBE THIS ISN'T AN ISSUE, BUT WHEN, WHEN SOMEONE LOOKS TO MISUSE OR ABUSE A SITUATION, THEY, THEY WILL DO IT. SO UNDERSTANDING HOW WE COMBAT THAT, IT JUST SEEMS ODD TO ME THAT WHILE THE DEFINITION SAYS IT'S SPECIFICALLY TRAINED TO SUPPORT A DISABILITY, BUT YOU CAN'T ASK FOR DOCUMENTATION OF THAT, THAT, THAT, DOESN'T THAT SEEM ODD TO YOU? UH, IT'S NO, NOT ODD WHEN YOU DEAL WITH THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENT AS MUCH AS WE DO. UM, AND SO YES, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. YES, IT'S MORE OR LESS AN AN OXYMORON, BUT, UH, AS MY HR HAD THAT I GET, UH, GOT PUT ON A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THAT YOU CAN'T ASK. AND SO IT, IT, IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT. BUT WHEN YOU TAKE FEDERAL MONEY AND STATE MONEY, THEY GET TO MAKE THE RULES. AND THIS IS UNFORTUNATELY ONE OF THEIR RULES WITH THE A DA 'CAUSE THEY CONTROL THE RULES SAYING YOU CAN'T ASK. SO IF WE WANT TO KEEP TAKING THE MONEY, WE'VE GOTTA CREATE A POLICY AND GO FORWARD. SO, WELL, YES, WE, WE FULLY AGREE WITH YOU SUPERVISOR GALL, THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE THAT SOMEBODY COULD COME ON AND SAY, YES, IT'S MY SERVICE ANIMAL AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. YES, WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I THINK WE COME DOWN TO A BIG, BIG PROBLEM. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHEN WE COME BACK WITH THIS WHOLE, ARE YOU DISABLED OR NOT QUESTION. RIGHT? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T REQUIRE THEM, AS WE, WE MENTIONED LAST TIME, I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST TIME, I WOULD, WE CAN'T REQUIRE THEM TO RIGHT NOW, SAY IF THEY'RE DISABLED OR NOT. SO I THINK IF WE GET DOWN TO THAT PRO LEVEL PROBLEM, THEN WE COME BACK TO YOU AND GOING, WE GOT THIS BIG PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE SAYING THEY'RE DISABLED, BUT WE DON'T THINK THEY ARE. AND THAT'S WHERE YOU CREATE THIS WHOLE BIG PAPERWORK FOR EVERYBODY, THAT THEY'VE GOTTA GO THROUGH THESE, ALL THESE HOOPS THAT ACTUALLY RIDE THE, THE SHARED OUR TAXI WITH THE DISABLED RATE. YEAH. THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE UNDERSTOOD THAT'S WHERE, THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD HEAD DOWN THAT PATH WITH, WITH THIS COMMITTEE. UM, IT'S JUST THAT RIGHT NOW, IF YOU, IT COULD TAKE YOU WEEKS AND NOT MONTHS TO, TO GET ALL THE DOCUMENTATION TO PROVE THAT, VERSUS YOU NEED A RIDE IN TWO DAYS. YEP. UH, UNDERSTANDABLE. AND, AND I, MY APOLOGIES, CHARLIE, IF YOU WERE GONNA COVER THIS OR NOT, BUT, UH, I HAD RAISED IN THE LAST MEETING WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE POLICY ABOUT HOW TO ADDRESS A SERVICE ANIMAL THAT SOILS A VEHICLE. WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE BROUGHT UP OR BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED, WE DON'T BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE A POLICY FOR IT? UH, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT I CAN, THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY IN THE POLICY FOR, UH, UH, ANIMAL, UH, LIABILITY FOR, FOR DAMAGES. UH, BUT THAT, UH, I COULD BRING THAT UP WITH OUR PROVIDER AND PROVIDE A REPORT ON THAT FOR OUR, UH, NEXT MEETING WITH ALL OF THESE SUPERVISOR GALS. WE DO HAVE TO CHECK WITH THE STATE TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE OKAY WITH US EVEN CREATING THAT TYPE OF POLICY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. UNDERSTANDABLE. AGAIN, I'M YEP. JUST SAYING, DO WE COVER OURSELVES? IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POLICY AND WE'RE GOING TO THIS DEGREE, WOULDN'T WE, WOULDN'T IT BE PRUDENT TO, UM, AT LEAST DECIDE WE'RE EITHER ARE, WE AREN'T GOING TO INCLUDE IT, WE WILL LOOK INTO THAT AND TRY TO GET A REPORT BACK ON THAT. YES. OKAY. AND, UH, CHAIRMAN SLE HAS A QUESTION TOO. UH, SUPERVISOR GALT, IF YOU'RE ALL DONE, THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. UM, TO MY EXPERIENCE, AND YOU'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE SERVICE DOGS THESE DAYS, BUT THEY'RE USUALLY WEARING A HARNESS OR COLLAR THAT CLEARLY STATES THAT THEY'RE A SERVICE DOG. SO, UM, KNOWING THAT, AND AGAIN, I, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE WEARING AN HR HAT NOW, YOU STILL USE COMMON SENSE, WHICH I APPRECIATE. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE NUMBER ONE, COMFORT AND SERVICE ANIMAL POLICY? OKAY. SEEING NONE, WE CAN MOVE ON TO TWO. OKAY. SO THE MAXIMUM ADVANCE, UH, RESERVATION WINDOW. UH, SO IT DEFINES HOW FAR IN ADVANCE A RIDER MAY BOOK A TRIP. SO OUR CURRENT POLICY, IT JUST ENCOURAGES RIDERS [00:15:01] TO CALL AT LEAST ONE DAY PRIOR, BUT THERE'S NO EXPLICIT MAXIMUM WINDOW. UH, THE STATE, UH, REQUIRES, UH, EXPLICITLY TO STATE A MAXIMUM ADVANCE RESERVATION WINDOW. UH, SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADOPT A 30 DAY RESERVATION WINDOW TO LINE WITH, UH, UH, OUR CURRENT PRACTICE AND TO STA SATISFY THE STATE REQUIREMENT FOR CLARITY. SO THAT'S MAXIMUM DAYS IN ADVANCE IS A, WOULD BE 30 DAYS. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY. WE'RE GOOD ON THAT ONE. OKAY. OKAY. DRIVER ASSISTANCE LIMITATIONS. SO, WASHINGTON COUNTY TRANSIT OFFERS, UH, DOOR TO DOOR SERVICE. UH, THIS POLICY DEFINES EXACTLY WHAT DRIVERS MAY AND MAY NOT DO. SO OUR CURRENT POLICY DRIVERS GO NO FURTHER THAN THE LOBBY FOR PICKUP OR DROP OFF AND SPECIALIZED SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES REQUIRING DOOR-TO-DOOR SERVICE. THAT'S IN OUR CURRENT POLICY. SOME OF THE STATE TEMPLATE POLICY, THEY GIVE US MORE, UH, MORE LANGUAGE TO WORK WITH. HERE THEY SAY, STAFF WILL NOT LIFT A PASSENGER, LEAVE A VEHICLE UNATTENDED OR OUTTA VISUAL OBSERVATION FOR A LENGTHY PERIOD OF TIME, ENTER A RIDER'S HOME CARE FOR SERVICE ANIMALS, OPERATE A POWER CHAIR, PROVIDE PERSONAL CARE ATTENDANTS OR PCA SERVICE, OR TAKE ACTIONS THAT WOULD BE CLEARLY UNSAFE. IF MORE EXTENSIVE ASSISTANCE IS NEEDED BY THE INDIVIDUAL, THEN WE CAN PROVIDE, THE INDIVIDUAL WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ARRANGING PERSONAL ASSISTANCE. UH, WE WILL WORK WITH THE INDIVIDUAL OR CAREGIVER SLASH SOCIAL WORKER TO CLARIFY PARAMETERS OF THE ASSISTANCE THAT CAN BE PROVIDED BY THE TRANSIT SYSTEM. AND SO THE ADDITIONAL PROCEDURE, UH, WHICH I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE NOTE THAT I ADDED IS, UH, UH, REASONABLE MODIFICATION REQUEST FORM AND ASSOCIATED PROCEDURE TO THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. UH, SO THIS IS, UH, A STATE REQUIREMENT TO ADD TO THE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. UH, SO THIS ESTABLISHES A PROCESS FOR EVALUATING, UH, DISABILITY RELATED REQUESTS FOR MODIFICATIONS TO POLICIES, PRACTICES, OR PROCEDURES, INCLUDING REQUESTS THAT MAY IN INVOLVE ASSISTANCE BEYOND THE STANDARD DRIVER'S ASSISTANCE LIMITATIONS. SO A REASONABLE MODIFICATION REQUEST CAN BE DENIED, NOT, PARDON ME, MAY BE DENIED ONLY ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING GROUNDS. SO IF THE REQUEST WOULD FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER THE NATURE OF OUR SERVICE PROGRAM OR ACTIVITIES, UH, IF IT CREATE A DIRECT THREAT TO THE HEALTH OR SAFETY OF OTHERS, OR WITHOUT THE REQUEST, THE INDIVIDUAL WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE SERVICE, UH, FOR THEIR INTENDED, UH, PURPOSE. UH, SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO UPDATE THE CURRENT POLICY AND ADD THE, UH, TEMPLATE LIMITATIONS, AND, UH, ADD THAT THE REASONABLE MODIFICATION REQUEST FORM AND PROCEDURE AS REQUIRED TO ADDRESS DISABILITY RELATED, UH, REQUESTS. OKAY. ANYBODY IN THE COMMITTEE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT? SOUNDS GOOD. I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE GOOD ON THAT ONE. OKAY. LET'S SEE. OKAY. EXCESSIVE NO-SHOWS. SO IT DEFINES WHAT A NUMBER OF NO-SHOWS BY RIDER IS, UH, CLASSIFIED AS EXCESSIVE, UH, EXCESSIVE. NO-SHOWS CAN RESULT IN SERVICE SUSPENSIONS. UH, DIALYSIS CLIENTS ARE EXEMPT FROM THIS. UH, SO WE HAVE, UH, SO WHAT DEFINES A NO-SHOW OR LATE CANCELLATION IS, UH, NOT PRESENT WHEN THE DRIVER ARRIVES NOT READY WITHIN FIVE MINUTES, CANCELING LESS THAN AN HOUR BEFORE, OR NOT HAVING THE REQUIRED FARE. UH, SO OUR CURRENT POLICY IS, UH, THREE, NO-SHOWS IN A 60 DAY PERIOD WOULD RESULT IN A NO-SHOW VIOLATION. BUT THE STATE TEMPLATE POLICY REQUIRES, UH, A DIFFERENT OUTLINE FOR A, UH, DEFINITION OF A NO-SHOW. A SUSPENSION SHOULD BE THREE OR MORE. NO-SHOWS WITHIN A 30 DAY PERIOD COULD RESULT IN A, UH, A VIOLATION IF THE FREQUENCY OF NO-SHOWS IS GREATER THAN 10% OF THE SCHEDULED TRIPS. SO THIS IS, IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT RIDE MORE OFTEN, THEY'RE NOT PENALIZED AT THE SAME RATE AS SOMEONE WHO ONLY RIDES FOUR TIMES. UH, SO THIS TABLE KIND OF ILLUSTRATES HOW MANY TRIPS AND HOW MANY, UH, NO-SHOWS WOULD TRIGGER A VIOLATION. SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADD THE ADOPT THE, UH, STATE 30 DAY THREE PLUS NO-SHOWS GREATER THAN 10%, UH, NO-SHOW STANDARD, AND USING THE TABLE ABOVE TO COMMUNICATE, [00:20:01] UH, TO RIDERS. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ON THIS PART? OKAY. SEEING NONE, WE'RE GOOD TO GO ON THAT ONE. OKAY. SO WE HAVE THE NO SHOW, UH, SUSPENSION TABLE. SO THIS RELATES TO THE EXCESSIVE NO, SO NO-SHOW DEFINITION. SO WHEN YOU, UH, WITH THE CURRENT POLICY, UH, THREE NO-SHOWS IN A 60 DAY PERIOD RESULTS IN A 21 DAY SUSPENSION AND A WARNING AFTER THE FIRST NEW, FIRST TWO NO-SHOWS. UH, SUSPENSION CAN BE APPEALED IN WRITING OR LIFTED BY PAYING A $10 VOLUNTARY FINE. AND FURTHER VIOLATIONS MAY RESULT IN ADDITIONAL SUSPENSION. UH, BUT WITH W DOCK GUIDANCE, IT REQUIRES A PROGRESSIVE SUSPENSION SCHEDULE WITHIN A ROLLING SIX MONTH PERIOD. AND IT ALLOWS US TO ESTABLISH THE SUSPENSION LENGTH AND ALSO A VOLUNTARY PAYMENT AMOUNT. YOU SAY VOLUNTARY PAYMENT, YOU MEAN THAT IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO PAY IT, THEY JUST STAY SUSPENDED? SUSPENDED? RIGHT. THEN THEY WOULD BE JUST SUSPENDED. OKAY. AND SUSPENSIONS, UH, CANNOT EXCEED 30 DAYS. UH, SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADOPT A PROGRESSIVE, UH, SUSPENSION SCHEDULE. UH, SO AFTER THE FIRST VIOLATION, IT'S SEVEN DAYS, SECOND VIOLATION, 14 THIRD, 21 FOURTH, UH, 30 DAYS. AND ALL FURTHER VIOLATIONS, UH, IS ALSO 30 DAY SUSPENSION. AND SO I'VE ADDED THIS TABLE HERE FOR THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH PLUS VIOLATION. THE NUMBER OF DAYS THEY WOULD BE SUSPENDED, AND I HAVE A VOLUNTARY PAYMENT VP, UH, OPTION A, B OR C. C IS X. IF YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR, FOR DIFFERENT, UH, TIERS OF THE PAYMENT. IT COULD BE, UH, A FLAT VOLUNTARY PAYMENT FOR EACH TIER, UH, OF SUSPENSION. UH, THE CURRENT ONE IS, UH, JUST $10 FOR ANY, UH, SUSPENSION. BUT WITH THIS TIER, WE COULD HAVE THE, UH, VOLUNTARY FINE, UH, INCREASE AS THE SUSPENSIONS INCREASE. AND THIS IS WITHIN A, A SIX MONTH RULING PERIOD. UH, SO YOU WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD A NO SHOW A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, THAT WOULDN'T COUNT AS YOUR SECOND VIOLATION. THAT'D BE YOUR NOW FIRST VIOLATION, UH, FOR THE CURRENT SIX MONTH ROLLING PERIOD. UH, SO GALL HAD, UH, ADDED, UH, THE POSSIBLE, UH, VOLUNTARY PAYMENT OF $24. THAT WAS, THAT NUMBER WAS CALCULATED AS THREE TRIPS TIMES THE AVERAGE, UH, FAIR PER RIDE BASED ON THE, UM, THE LAST MONTH'S, UH, RIDERSHIP REPORT. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HAVING THE COMMITTEE DO IS PICK COLUMN A, COLUMN B, OR COME UP WITH SOMETHING NEW FOR COLUMN C, IS WHAT WE'RE REALLY ASKING THE, THE COMMITTEE TO, TO LOOK AT BESIDES NOT JUST THAT, BUT THEN THE VIOLATION DAYS AS WELL TO LOOK AT. SO THERE'S TWO, TWO THINGS TO LOOK AT AS THE, THE FIRST VIOLATION, 7, 14, 21 AND 30. THEN SECONDLY IS, WHAT SHOULD THAT VOLUNTARY PAYMENT AMOUNT BE CURRENTLY $10, WE PUT SOME DOLLAR AMOUNTS IN THERE, BUT THEN ALSO LEFT ONE OF THE COLUMNS BLANK, IF YOU SO CHOOSE TO PICK A DIFFERENT DOLLAR AMOUNT. ANY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? I GUESS I WOULD, I WOULD SAY, UM, COLUMN A IS MORE OF A PROGRESSIVE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, OTHERWISE COLUMN C, IF WE DO A PROGRESSIVE, I, I THINK THAT THE PROGRESSIVE STEPS ON IT HOPEFULLY WOULD BE MORE TO, UM, THEM AVOIDING A, AVOIDING A A NO SHOW. YEAH, I KIND OF AGREE WITH THAT TOO. IT'S LIKE MORE, MORE VIOLATIONS, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS STEP UP THE FINES. RIGHT. UM, AND IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH, UH, THE TABLE A OR SHOULD WE CREATE A START AT 10, GO TO 15, 20, 25? I MEAN, THAT'S UP TO, TO US TO ESTABLISH A, YOU KNOW, CARE THAT COULD BE OUR TABLE C SUPERVISOR. GALL, UH, THANK YOU. JUST FOR A LITTLE CLARIFICATION, WHILE CHARLIE WAS CORRECT ABOUT, UH, THE, THE THREE TIMES AND A AND A PENALTY, UM, WHAT, WHAT WAS MISSED WAS THE PROGRESSIVE PART AND THE LOGIC BEHIND MY RECOMMENDATION IS, UM, THE OPPORTUNITY COST OF THOSE, UM, VIOLATIONS, RIGHT? NOT ONLY THAT, UH, [00:25:01] THE FAIR, BUT, UH, OTHER POTENTIAL RIDES THAT WERE POTENTIALLY DISRUPTED BECAUSE OF IT. SO IT'S NOT ONLY THE INDIVIDUAL THEMSELVES AND THE DRIVER, YOU KNOW, HAVING NOTHING TO DO. IT'S OTHER RIDERS THAT COULD HAVE TAKEN A FAIR OR DRIVERS COULD HAVE TAKEN ANOTHER FA SO YEAH, COLUMN B UM, SHOULD BE PROGRESSIVE. THAT SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, 24, 36, 48, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET INTO THOSE SECOND, THIRD, FOURTH, UH, NOW YOUR HABITUAL, UH, VIOLATOR AND THAT GET OUTTA JAIL FREE CARD SHOULD BE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE. COLUMN C WOULD TAKES COLUMN C AND, AND SET THOSE LIMITS. I, I THINK IF THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADING TOWARDS COLUMN C, MAKING IT PROGRESSIVE AND WHAT DO WE START AT? INITIALLY IT'S $10, WE CAN GO 10 20 OR WHATEVER WE, YEAH. SO SUPERVISOR GITZ, ARE YOU, ARE YOU THINKING YOU WANTED TO START HIGHER THEN, OR WHAT, WHAT WAS YOUR SCHEDULE? WELL, SO, SO, UM, I THOUGHT AT, AT, AT MINIMUM IT HAD TO BE THE AMOUNT OF, UM, MISSED FARES TO GET TO YOUR FIRST VIOLATION, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. IS THAT THREE, IS THAT CORRECT, CHARLIE? MM-HMM. UH, YEP. YEAH. W THREE. YEAH. SO THREE TIMES, THREE FARES PLUS A DOUBLE PENALTY, MEANING AGAIN, WE MIGHT NOT BE SOLVING FOR A BIG PROBLEM, BUT, UH, AGAIN, IF IT'S TO CHANGE BEHAVIORS SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE, UH, REPEAT OFFENDERS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, WELL, THEN THAT PENALTY SHOULD BE SUBSTANTIVE IF YOU WANNA, UH, RESUME SERVICE BEFORE THE END OF YOUR SUSPENSION PERIOD. SO THREE TIMES, THREE FARES IS WHAT WE TALKING AT. IS IT $3 A FARE? THE 24 WOULD BE THE STARTING POINT. OH, 24 WOULD BE THE STARTING POINT. GOTCHA. AND THEN GO PROGRESSIVE FROM THERE. YEP. SO MAYBE IT GOES UP 12 AND EACH SECOND, THIRD AND FOURTH. SO START AT 24, 36, 48, 60. IT'S KIND OF STEEP, BUT THAT WOULD MAKE A POINT. IT ISN'T THAT THE INTENT, AGAIN, THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY COST I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT. RIGHT. IF THAT RIDER WANTS SENSE. THAT MAKES SENSE. I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU WERE GETTING TO THE FOURTH OFFENSE, YOU HAVE ALREADY AT LEAST GOTTEN TO, I MEAN, THINK ABOUT HOW MANY TRIPS THAT IS. YOU WOULD'VE GOTTEN TO WHAT, 12 MISSED TRIPS IF YOU WERE JUST TO, IF YOU WERE ON LIKE, THE LOW, ON THE ONE TO 29 TRIPS IN THAT 30 DAY PERIOD. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S A LOT. THAT'S COSTING US A LOT OF MONEY. SURE. SO I AGREE THAT PROGRESSIVE NEEDS TO BE STEEP. OKAY. I MEAN, OTHERWISE WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? I MEAN, RIGHT. THEN IT'S JUST LIKE THEY'LL KEEP GOING AND THAT EVERY ONE OF THOSE TRIPS IS COSTING US MONEY THAT WE'RE SUBSIDIZING. ABSOLUTELY. OR, AND I THINK VIOLATIONS ARE GOING UP ON, EVEN ON THE SHERIFF'S SIDE OF STUFF TOO, THEY CAN ALSO CHOOSE THE TO BE OFFICE SERVICE FOR 30 DAYS TOO. SO INSTEAD OF THE $60 FEE, THEY COULD ALSO JUST CHOOSE TO BE SUSPENDED FOR THE 30 DAYS. YEP. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU'RE, YOU'RE AWARE IT'S, IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER. OR THE OTHER. YES. CORRECT. SO JUST MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT TOO. SO IF THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY THE $60, THEY CERTAINLY CAN TAKE THE 30 DAY SUSPENSION, AND I THINK THAT'S FAIR. THERE'S OPTIONS THERE. MM-HMM . I GUESS WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT IF THEY'RE GONNA ABUSE THE SYSTEM LIKE THAT, WE WANNA PUNISH THEM ACCORDINGLY. IF THEY WOULD RATHER JUST SIT OUT THE 30 DAYS, THAT'S THEIR OPTION, THAT'S THEIR CALL, BUT AT LEAST WE, WE SET IT UP TO THE POINT WHERE IT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN RECOUP SOME OF THE LOSSES THAT WE'VE HAD. RIGHT. AND JUST, JUST TO POINT OUT, SOMETIMES THE MISSES ARE NOT ALWAYS CAN BE AVOIDED. THEY MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING ELSE COME UP UNAVOIDABLY, SO JUST UNDERSTAND THAT TOO. BUT AGAIN, NOT THAT MANY IN THAT SHORT OF WINDOW OF TIME, TYPICALLY SPEAKING. YEAH, NO, I, I GET THAT. BUT THAT'S ON KIND OF ON YOUR CALL BASIS THEN TOO, RIGHT? RIGHT. MM-HMM . UH, SUPERVISOR SALICK, DID YOU HAVE A NO, AND I, SUPERVISOR GALLATIN ASKED, BUT THREE MISSED WOULD BE $24. IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? IF THAT WOULD BE THE, IF THEY MISSED THREE, IS IT $8 A UH, YES, THAT'D BE THREE. WELL, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT THEY TAKE, LET'S, IN A ROLLING PERIOD, IT, IT GOES UP TO THE, THE, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE MASSIVE SPREADSHEET RATE ABOVE IT, SO IT COULD BE AS MINIMUM AS LITTLE AS THREE. BUT IF THEY RIDE, YOU KNOW. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.